Kiddles are barriers or weirs in rivers designed to catch fish. A fine kettle of fish. The latter is much older, dating from the eighteenth century, while yours is nineteenth century and seems to be derived from it. – The usual explanation of ‘Hobson’s choice’ is fallacious. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! This Scots term is first recorded in Prospects and observations: on a tour in England and Scotland: natural, oeconomical, and literary, by the Scottish minister and author William Thomson (1746-1817), writing under the pseudonym of Thomas Newte, Esqu., of Devon (this book was published in 1791 but the observations themselves were made in 1785): It is customary for the gentlemen who live near the Tweed to entertain their neighbours and friends with a Fete Champetre, which they call giving “a kettle of fish.” Tents or marquees are pitched near the flowery banks of the river, on some grassy plain; a fire is kindled, and live salmon thrown into boiling kettles. – meaning and origin of ‘the devil to pay’ I have exposed several other folk etymologies, in particular in the following articles: origin of ‘Indian summer’ and French ‘été sauvage’. NORTH American salmon and trout producers are keen to begin using a new antiviral vaccine. We can't be sure but, for my money, the 'saucepan' (rather appropriately) is probably the source. – Kilkenny cats I've only heard it in the expression "that's a fine kettle of fish." It seems that a kettle of fish first came to generally refer to a muddled or confused state of affairs, used in sentences such as This is a fine kettle of fish we’re in. When you say ‘this is a fine/pretty kettle of fish’, you mean you have got yourself into an annoying or a messy situation. Both 'kettle' meaning fish kettle and 'kettle' meaning fishing net were in use before the expression came into existence. (this book was published in 1791 but the observations themselves were made in 1785): It is customary for the gentlemen who live near the Tweed to entertain their neighbours and friends with a Fete Champetre, which they call giving “. Kettle of Fish is a historic bar in Greenwich Village, Manhattan, New York City. – origin of ‘once in a blue moon’ The phrase 'a different kettle of fish' has a separate meaning, which is, 'an alternative; a different thing altogether'. informal In late 18th-century Scotland, a kettle of fish was a large saucepan of fish, typically freshly caught salmon, cooked at Scottish picnics, and the term was also applied to the picnic itself. – clew – clue However, stating something to be true doesn't make it true and Brewer offers no supporting evidence. – mistaken etymology of ‘not to give a XXXX’ in the Oxford English Dictionary or a fine kettle of fish!, meaning that some awkward state of affairs has arisen. It is therefore most likely that the phrase a pretty kettle of fish originally referred to a net full of fish, which, when drawn up with its contents, is suggestive of confusion, flurry and disorder. Wednesday, January 11, 2017 - 09:00. So, whoever coined the phrase could have had either in mind. fine kettle of fish origin. Previous Page. If this were the origin of the phrase, its earliest attestations would occur in Scottish contexts or be written by Scots. This means, additionally, that the phrase is first recorded long before Thomas Newte observed the Scottish “fêtes champêtres” in 1785. Let's look at them both. [Early 1700s] 2. a different or another kettle of fish. Antonyms for fine kettle of fish include answer, resolution, solution, clarification, explanation, remedy, solving and way out. (The noun kettle is from Old English cetel, cietel, of Germanic origin, based on Latin catillus, diminutive of catinus, meaning deep container for cooking or serving food. There is no relation between kettle in the sense of a vessel and kettle net, because in the latter term kettle is a variant of kiddle. a pretty kettle of fish = a fine kettle of fish an awkward state of affairs – informal In late 18th-century Scotland, a kettle of fish was a large saucepan of fish, typically freshly caught salmon, cooked at Scottish picnics and the term was also applied to the picnic itself. 229 likes. The two phrases are often confused but have different origins and different meanings. Learn more, including how we use cookies and how you can change your settings. By the mid 18th century, the novelist Henry Fielding was using the phrase to mean a muddle. In this he referred to fish kettles: "It is customary for the gentlemen who live near the Tweed to entertain their neighbours and friends with a Fete Champetre [a picnic], which they call giving 'a kettle of fish'. A Fine Kettle of Fish. May 15th, 2001 A Fine Kettle of Fish Is your bouillabaisse authentic? Origin of: Kettle of fish. ORIGIN There is an obvious error in the Oxford English Dictionary (1 st edition – 1901): under the headword kettle in the general sense of a vessel for boiling water or other liquids , appears the term kettle net , meaning a form of net used in fishing for mackerel . Either could connect to imagery of muddle - either a fish stew or fish writhing in a net. History: Although originated in the United Kingdom, this phrase is also prevalently used in the United States. – origin of ‘to buttonhole’ (to detain in conversation) Synonyms for fine kettle of fish include situation, problem, fix, predicament, bind, issue, trouble, difficulty, emergency and pickle. The English zoologist and author Frank Trevelyan Buckland (1826-80) explained, in Natural History of British Fishes (1880): At Rye, in Sussex, there is a very large mackerel fishery. – the multiple meanings and origins of ‘P’s and Q’s’. ←Full Sourdough Class May 8th 2021 in Bethania Qld. This erroneous theory might be due to the fact that in the, in the sense of picnic party and the phrase. Get directions Get Quote WhatsApp 01942 864832 Message 01942 864832 Contact Us Find Table View Menu Make Appointment Place Order. According to an erroneous theory, in the phrase, Prospects and observations: on a tour in England and Scotland: natural, oeconomical, and literary, , by the Scottish minister and author William Thomson (1746-1817), writing under the pseudonym of. We are like to have a funeral at our own expense. In 1785 Thomas Newte published A Tour in England and Scotland. This term alludes to the Scottish riverside picnic called kettle of fish, where freshly caught salmon were boiled and eaten out of hand. You can find it just about anywhere you can smell the salt in the air. Learn more. This erroneous theory might be due to the fact that in the Oxford English Dictionary, kettle of fish in the sense of picnic party and the phrase a pretty kettle of fish are under the same headword [see footnote]. There are two opposing strands of thought as to what the kettle in 'a pretty kettle of fish' is. Most people in the 18th century, when referring to a kettle, would have meant saucepan rather than net. Nice Kettle of Fish : Phrases Meaning: This term is usually part of 'a fine kettle of fish', 'a pretty kettle of fish' etc, which mean 'a muddle or awkward state of affairs'. 1. a situation; state of affairs (often used ironically in the phrase a pretty or fine kettle of fish ) 2. case; matter for consideration. See also, the meaning and origin of 'a different kettle of fish'. Posted on January 11, 2021 by January 11, 2021 by The mackerel here are caught in large fixed nets, called. .” Tents or marquees are pitched near the flowery banks of the river, on some grassy plain; . , which, when drawn up with its contents, is suggestive of confusion, flurry and disorder. kettle of fish synonyms, ... a situation; state of affairs (often used ironically in the phrase a pretty or fine kettle of fish) 2. case; matter for consideration: that's quite a different kettle of fish. They’re still used today by some chefs, but a modern fish kettle is a whole other… thing, compared to 19th and 18th century ones, which were big, heavy, solid objects. So, if we take Newte's word for it, the kettle in the expression 'a kettle of fish' is the cooking implement a fish kettle. We are like to have a funeral at our own expense. The expression 'a pretty kettle of fish' or 'a fine/nice kettle of fish' means 'a muddle or awkward state of affairs'. Nice Kettle of Fish. Firstly, the original one, a fine kettle of fish means that an awkward or disagreeable state of affairs has arisen. "Fine kettle of fish.I'm so hungry even that sounds good, and from the looks of this menu that's probably what I'll get." There is an obvious error in the Oxford English Dictionary (1st edition – 1901): under the headword kettle in the general sense of a vessel for boiling water or other liquids, appears the term kettle net, meaning a form of net used in fishing for mackerel. Royal officers had the perquisite to trap fish in kiddles, but poachers often raided the traps of fish, frequently destroying the kiddles in the process. In Scotland parties were held at the riverside to cook and eat salmon and so a 'pretty kettle of fish' ironically refers to a picnic that gets out of hand and a 'different kettle of fish' is a separate affair, like 'a whole new ball game'. The expression 'a different kettle of fish' has, as seems fitting, a different meaning, which is 'an alternative; a different thing altogether'. – original meaning of ‘to see the elephant’ An Excellent Fish And Chips Shop. fish kettle definition: 1. a large metal pan for cooking fish 2. a large metal pan for cooking fish. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. – origin of ‘Indian summer’ and French ‘été sauvage’ – origin of ‘point-blank’ However, there is another word of very long-standing which may be the source of the phrase, and that is 'kiddle'. Pacific Northwest seafood by way of the Lower Columbia River foodshed and Oregon's north coast. All weirs then removed altogether from Thames and Medway, and throughout England, except along the sea. Which is another way of saying that they are different phrases. What is the origin of the expression a kettle of fish when referring to something that is different ... a kettle was any large vessel used to boil stuff in, unlike the kettle people think of today, which is used for making tea. Look it up now! kettle of fish in British English. kettle of fish (plural kettles of fish) An awkward situation; a predicament2004, Ellen Raskin, The Westing Game, chapter 13: "That's a fine kettle of fish," he exclaimed, then turned to his dinner companion. As long as it tastes good, who cares? As this graph of the use of the two phrases in print shows, the 'pretty' variant was overtaken by 'different' around 1950. Furthermore, these outings must have been enjoyable events; otherwise they would simply not have taken place. The above explanation is entirely plausible and is what most people believe as the source of the phrase 'a pretty kettle of fish'. (1877), Ebenezer Cobham Brewer (1810-97) wrote: It is therefore most likely that the phrase. The first use in print of 'pretty kettle of fish' that I know of is in Henry Fielding's novel The History of the Adventures of Joseph Andrews, 1742: 'Here's a pretty Kettle of Fish,' cries Mrs. Tow-wouse. A messy predicament. By Julie Cohen. A Fine Kettle Of Fish! – a curious case of misunderstanding in the Oxford English Dictionary And indeed, in the same edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, kettle net also appears under the headword kiddle, a noun denoting a dam or other barrier in a river, with an opening fitted with nets to catch fish. The fish, thus prepared, is very firm, and accounted a most delicious food. The usual explanation of ‘Hobson’s choice’ is fallacious. The other is more of an exclamation: either as a pretty kettle of fish! 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